Discussion in 'TNA iMPACT! (2011-2015)' started by Senhor Perfect, Mar 19, 2013.
Is this offensive or just an actor being an actor?
People will deem it offensive but having seen many of his ECW promos its probs just Bully getting into character imo. He nearly swore on Impact as well in a backstage segment also, so i personally think he is embracing the heel character and having fun and going to town with it to help the product. If anything the apology makes him look stupid.
If i had been that fan i would have marked my ass off.
That's what I was thinking, if he had just said that was my character, you're supposed to hate him, I'd be fine. The apology seems forced and emotionless. An apology from TNA/Dixie would've sufficed.
I'm a massive fan of heels doing whatever they can to get heat, but this should never happen in modern wrestling. It's inevitably going to cause unwanted attention and portray the company you work for as homophobic, despite all of us knowing better. You don't need to sink to these levels to get heat. It's a pretty brainless move to be honest.
Ive seen worse and considering in recent times Punk has used a heart attack and now a death to get heat im not sure i see the problem. I see what ur saying Crayo as it can be deemed a horrendous word but i thought people would get the idea as its scripted.
Mocking someone who was completely okay with the storyline (in your example - Jerry Lawler) is not comparable to a wrestler mocking a paying member of the audience over their sexuality (if they're not aware of what's coming). In modern society such actions are just not acceptable. I'm not saying I'm offended or think this is grossly wrong (because I'm not, I like old fashioned heels), but he should have been a lot smarter with it. You don't need to resort to controversial insults to get heat, and this does temporary damage to the company.
Homophobia is seen in the same graphic as racism. Would you think it's okay for Bully Ray to go and racially abuse some African American for the sake of scripted heat?
Obviously not but I wasnt aware homophobia was such a huge issue. Especially as we see a fair few sexist remarks regards Divas i just dont see where the line is drawn? If that makes sense? Surely sexism then is as bad but people seem ok with that.
I say this with all the love in my heart, but generally speaking, yeah, sexism is more OK than homophobia. At least here it tends to be that way. Women will get pissed and tout women's rights and equality, etc., sometimes when sexist remarks are made, sure. But overall sexism is overlooked more so than homophobic remarks, in my opinion at least.
Also, those sexist antics aren't nearly as blatant as this homophobic slur was. You don't see male wrestlers directly go into the divas face and yell at them to go to the kitchen, or anything similar. He was flat out calling him a fag (and said he invented fags, lol), and all this was in front of his daughter too. It's just not acceptable imo, and I'm a huge Bully mark. He just went too far.
Don't see the big deal. It's no different than calling someone a retard - that's not an intentional insult towards the mentally handicapped either.
He's clearly mocking the audience member for being a "fag", as if it's a bad thing. That's blatant homophobia lol... If he's calling him out for being homosexual and saying it's bad, then that directly affects every other homosexual does it not?
"Oh it's bad for him to be gay, but not for you guys, I love you guys".
The term "retard" tends to be used in different context now. It's almost become slang for how popular it is, and that makes it different to homophobia imo. If someone calls you a retard, they basically just mean "Are you stupid?", and have no intention for it to be related to lacking mental progression. Though it would be wrong for him to call someone out for being retarded as well, so I don't see your point.
Homophobic people exist. Why should I care that an actor in a television program is portraying a homophobic person?
Unless your homophobic or sensitive, then you have no reason to care. This isn't about you caring.
Why should anyone care? If Blake called Adam a fag on Workaholics would any of these same outraged people be sending in letters to Comedy Central?
Of course not. So why is wrestling held to a different standard?
These people who just sit around with their ears perked up waiting to be offended need to jump off a cliff.
This was directed at a paying member of the audience specifically, and that in a whole makes it completely different. Regardless of whether this was right or wrong, it's not good for TNA at all. Bully doesn't need to resort to homophobia to get boos, and TNA have already had to publicly apologise.
Would you be okay with an African American being racially abused as well? Or is racism a completely different matter (which it's not)? Would your retort be "I don't care if he's racist because he's acting, so calling him the n word is fine"?
It is completely different because I seriously doubt the person he was calling a fag was gay. obviously if you want to get racist you already know you are striking a very specific nerve.
I guess I'm just an old school wrestling fan. My Dad would tell me stories of when he and friends would go to regional events and how heels would interact with fans and have old ladies swinging their purses at them. I get we live in a PC world in 2013, that doesn't mean I have to approve of thin skinned pussies getting offended over nothing.
Too much discussion over nothing. Man up, this 2013. 2013.
Dixie Carter and Bully Ray both issued apologies via Twitter yesterday as apparently Ray was a little too "Bubba Ray Dudley" with fans off the air at the Impact taping in Chicago. Cell phone footage of him really demoralizing one fan in a lewd, disgusting way popped up online shortly after, which is why the apology was issued. Ignoring the fact that the language never should have been used, it does bring to light that heel heat in 2013 is a hard line to define. On one hand, TMA really needs a truly hated heel to try and draw them money. But in the heat of the moment, a performer out to get that heat never knows when he's gone too far until after he's over the line and the fallout hits. In such a politically charged world, it turns into a scandal within seconds when it was never meant to be anything but a piece of sh** character acting like he should, like a piece of sh**. But, that's the balance pro wrestling has to deal with in 2013, where wrestling fans complain there are no real villains anymore and when someone acts like a villain with no redeeming qualities, it's called into question. I understand why but I also understand what Ray was trying to do, which was generate legitimate heat in a way that no one does in 2013.
Might as well go ahead and chime in with my fence-riding thoughts.
I'd held off on replying about the original point (just answered Cloud concerning the sexism issue) because quite frankly I can see both sides of the matter. While personally Bully's comments don't offend or bother me any, I can see how they would bother or offend others. Given, he didn't say those things on TV, but I'm sure plenty of the audience heard and could spread the word.
I'm a big fan of Bully's, and he makes an excellent heel. I do believe he gets really into it and really plays up his character, so I can see him getting into the moment and making those random, unprovoked comments to try to play his character up. However, there are so many other ways to get heat and so many other things he could have said or done. I also do kind of hate that the fan's daughter was there to hear and see her dad being treated in such a way and hearing such derogatory remarks about her dad. Though if she's an older daughter who would understand the scenario better, then not such a problem.
Sadly (in some ways), we do live int he age of political corrected-ness, so people are going to be highly insulted by those remarks and make a big deal over it. Dixie's apology should have sufficed. Having Bully apologize for it just comes across as odd.
To Crayo's point that these comments were made at a paying audience member and not a fellow wrestler who knew it was coming -- yeah, to me, it'd be one thing if they had planted a fan just to take heat from Bully and rile up the crowd, but not some random person who didn't expect to get called a fag in front of his child while paying to attend a wrestling event.
I don't know, I kind of see both sides. While not personally effected or offended, I can see how it'd hurt TNA, so in that regard I can see that Bully may have crossed the line a bit.
To play the advocate here, we also don't know what the fan said to Bully. I doubt Bully would single this guy out unprovoked. Maybe he sent a slur Bully's way? If so, does that change your opinion on what Bully said?
I just went off the OP source saying:
But yeah, that's why I mentioned in my post about if it's unprovoked. If it was provoked then it's more understandable, but supposedly he just randomly started to verbally attack someone in the audience. Seems odd, but suppose it could happen.
If he was provoked, I would need to know what the fan said to get a better idea of whether Bully's response was more "appropriate" or not. If the fan made a gay slur towards Bully then I could see his comments being more "fitting," but if the fan didn't make a gay slur toward Bully, then we're back at square one.