Discussion in 'International Wrestling' started by Stopspot, May 12, 2013.
Here's to one of the greatest.
Possibly the greatest ever, it's a shame he doesn't have much interest on here.
it might be the lack of excursions to America or just a majority of the userbase on here not being willing to put in the time to find other wrestling promotions.
but Kobashi is possibly the greatest ever as you said.
It's idiotic, we're apparently the smart ones yet continue to watch products which no longer entertain us.
How is it idiotic? The majority of the IWC just don't like Japanese wrestling, or most independent wrestling. By your logic, one has to watch these promotions to be considered smart? Come on.
One of the all time greats for sure,his matches with joe,misawa are among my favorite matches of all time.
Where the hell did I say that, I said it's idiotic to continue to watch shows which don't entertain you whilst the options are out there.
"It's idiotic, we're apparently the smart ones yet continue to watch products which no longer entertain us."
How you've mis-interpreted it into that I'll never know.
You're speaking on behalf of everyone there (dangerous), and what is your point lol? It's very obviously implying that you think these shows would entertain us, but we don't watch them, right? If you're not, then I have no idea what your point is. It's obvious why we watch these products that "don't entertain us", because they still do (or can).
The generic "X SUXS IM NOT WATCHING ANY MORE" is who I'm representing, I never claimed to be speaking for everyone with that aspect, we're the smart ones was an obvious reflection of the IWC as a whole but I wasn't condemning them but I was condemning the "yet continue to watch shows which don't entertain us". There are two criteria there, if you fit one but not the other than the criteria isn't applicable to you (you can consider yourself not a smark but bored of WWE but you won't have the tools to find Puro in all likeliness or you're as you still entertained by the WWE product to a level) however if you tick both those boxes the question must be raised as to why you're still following it when you know there are other venues out there.
There is a very likely solution of it being a case of being comfortable with the WWE, it's what the majority of us grew up on and adapting a completely different culture of entertainment could be difficult for some to embrace.
Once again you've mis-interpreted the point immensely, it isn't a case of this would be more entertaining to everyone. If you're sick of something don't fucking watch it. If you want to stay in wrestling but are bored of the WWE go to it's cultural opposite (Japan) and see what you like, explore differing companies rather than sitting back hating on the WWE's monopoly. Go watch Puro, go watch Indies, go watch European and Mexico stuff too the options are there and they aren't difficult to find.
Somehow you've taken a throw away point and required justification for it so there you go, enjoy.
Lol tldr, hell no am I reading all that for something so small. Chill out dude.
I'm more chill than a polar bear wearing shades in a lounger.
TLDR: Don't like something look for something else rather than complaining like it's the only option. Enjoy entertainment.
I agree with that. I don't see too much of that problem around here though (apart from a small few). Thank God.
Question though. If you're not a mat-wrestling mark, what can the indies provide you? I haven't seen any good promotions that offer great storylines, and a lot of WWE/TNA fans are in it for that. Sure, if you're a pure wrestling fan, watching Sweet T and Brodus dance probably isn't for you, but what companies genuinely offer a week-to-week alternative for WWE and TNA? I don't see many.
You want stories? How about Ring Of Honour? It's the easy cop out but they're adapting the sports-entertainment model more and more although they are adapting their own twist on it, they run a weekly show (around 40 minutes long I believe) with PPVs monthly. They have Matt Hardy running his I was in the WWE SMD gimmick as Corino's chosen one in SCUM whilst Steen has turned against them to beat the team he built. They'll offer you better matches than WWE / TNA in all likelyness and although it isn't the ROH of old it's still similar enough to the WWE for it to be an easy transition. It's your foot in the door to the indie world.
It's not weekly but Chikara offers decent stories usually too an example is Eddie Kingston winning the grand championship in a tournament announced in tribute to Larry Sweeney, the ending with Larry's brother handing him the belt was a sweet moment too (predictable but awesome).
Dragon Gate USA and Evolve also run monthly and have stories going through it. Some examples are Caleb Konley growing tired of his manager Larry Dallas not being able to get him and his partner title shots for the tag belts, only for Dallas and Reed to turn on him sparking a rivalry.
Or Johnny Gargano's 500+ day reign as the champion, taking on any challenger to prove himself since he is the first American with the belt which has now culminated in him turning heel with an arrogant "I am saving wrestling" persona.
Watched bits of RoH recently, and no offence, but it looks horrible atm. Steen is more or less the only part(s) I enjoy. Chikara may be fun, but it's far too SMS like.
None of those seem like good alternatives at all imo.
See the post above then, also you're looking for the WWE essentially I'm guessing from a production standpoint. DG : USA is probably the best wrestling currently in North America when stories are concerned.
Chikara is nothing like SMS either beyond it has gimmicks (something I think most will agree is missing in the modern WWE and TNA), the wrestling is a lot better and the entire ethos of the program is different, you'd never have got the emotion of the Kingston story in a SMS episode for example.
In terms of lighting, camera angles, and any other stuff like that, production doesn't interest me. In actual storylines though, it does. In WWE we have Brock tearing HHH's office apart, we have The Shield dominating both shows, we have heel Ryback against cliche Cena, we have a rejuvenated Antonio Cesaro, we have Ziggler doing his best to hold onto the belt. Stories. RoH doesn't provide that for me (who the fuck wants to see Matt Hardy?). Chikara is, let's just say, not what I am looking for.
I wouldn't want a monthly show either, but none of those sound particularly amazing either Stopspot. I know I haven't seen it, but first impressions from what you are saying are pretty low. I can give it a try, but a monthly show isn't an alternative to WWE/TNA imo.
So what can these complainers watch? So far, I'm yet to see anything. Maybe their complaining is completely fair.
Some people are never happy,they just want their opinion heard.No indy promotion is going to do the storylines that you want as they have different fanbase made up of hardcore fans who are more interested in the matches themselves.
That's my point. Without the raw urge to watch fantastic wrestling, moaning at WWE/TNA is all some people have. There isn't much competition out there at all. All this "if you're not happy, go check out Japan or elsewhere" is pretty flawed if you watch wrestling for other reasons.
Right so you're taking what's good about the WWE, in the example we were talking about someone who enjoys nothing of the show correct? So why would they find those stories interesting? Also you've put a very optimistic spin on those stories for quality, Ziggler has barely been featured, Brock and H has been 90% dull with a few good moments, Cesaro is solid but can you say it's more entertaining than Steen taking on SCUM? I honestly can't. Heel Ryback has been a bust too IMHO, The Shield is arguably the most entertaining story the E has to offer but in the overall gist of things it isn't that great, 3 guys jumping everyone is the same thing they've done since day one and what SCUM was doing before they were formed. As for your ROH comment about Hardy, who wants to see Cena do the same shit again from a smark perspective? It doesn't stop you tuning into Raw does it?
These complainers as outlined above can watch ROH for a weekly show (just because it doesn't interest you, someone who seems to enjoy the WWE product immensely doesn't mean it won't interest others who are uninterested in the WWE model), the monthly format again may be something a none interested WWE guy may be interested in once again just because you don't justify it as an alternative doesn't mean others don't. Just because you expect wrestling weekly doesn't mean it's the only entertaining solution for an alternative.
You're making these statements as someone who doesn't fit the criteria, you still enjoy the WWE so why would you find the alternatives interesting? You're not wanting to break out of the WWE philosophy as you still enjoy it. TNA isn't even as must see to you as Raw seems to be in though you regularly admit it's the better show on average, some have even accused you of being a WWE mark and a TNA hater, now whilst I find that ludicrous it's an indication of your preference between the two. Only when you're truly disengaged with the product will you find the alternatives to be more viable as a primary entertainment source.