The curious case of submission wrestling

Discussion in 'General WWE' started by Stopspot, Apr 4, 2013.

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    Submissions have been a part of wrestling for a long long time. Thesz invented the STF, Sting and Bret Hart made the Sharpshooter/Scorpion death lock famous and Daniel Bryan is currently making the Lebell lock famous. In short, submissions has almost always been around and a lot of wrestlers use them. But why are they not held in as high regard as a impact finisher?

    Is it that they don't build as much excitement as say a powerbomb? But wouldn't a submission be just as exciting to see with the right build up throughout the match leading up to it? Is that a submission doesn't have as much visual flair? or is it something else all together?

    Personally I like to see wrestlers who use submissions. I like impact finishers as well but I love seeing a well put together match leading up to a submission end with a good story going for it. This might be because I watch a lot of independent wrestling, where submission finishers are more common than on TV but anyways. Guys like Jericho, Benoit and Bryan have proven that you can win matches and make it exciting/good for TV, maybe it depends on the move itself? Bryan said he stopped using the Cattle mutilation when he came to the WWE because it didn't provide any good camera angles to help sell the move for the TV crowd so maybe there is something to that. Onto the discussion?

    Why do you think that impact finishers are preferred to submissions in general?

    What would you do to make submissions more "exciting"?

    Are there certain submission moves that just aren't for TV?
     
  2. Impact finishers are easier to book, for one thing. Also easier to reverse, counter, do on a table. They're far easier to build excitement with.

    But it depends on the opponents, I guess. The most exciting submission finish in recent memory (for me) was Survivor Series 2011 - the beginning of Punk's reign. Punk and Del Rio had a great back and forth, many near falls. Del Rio kicks out of an elbow drop from the top by lifting his arm - Punk grabs the arm and wrenches it into the Vice. It was unpredictable and innovative, but not all wrestlers or submission moves are capable of that.

    These days, I think the majority of casuals think submission wrestling is boring, especially when half the match is spent softening up a joint. They have little patience and understanding of storytelling or mat wrestling. Plus, no one really thinks the match will end via submission, so half the excitement is already gone. They're just waiting for the ropebreak. Even DB has a hard time getting submission victories unless it's against Ziggler.

    Bottom line, impact finishers are more marketable, and that's all the WWE cares about these days.
     
  3. I'm not so sure this is true, I remember i'd mark pretty hard when Benoit locked in the crossface or when Angle would lock in his Ankle Lock. I still sorta do when Y2J locks in the Walls of Jericho/Liontamer.
     
  4. I guess it just depends on how well they sell it.
     
  5. I think its just Impact finishers get over more with casuals,say if someone hits a brutal powerbomb it shows. I absolutely love submission holds but its not something i think wwe see marketable i guess.
     
  6. Faces don't tap sadly so that cuts your roster in half for submissions, I wouldn't say they can't be exciting however just be consistent with them. Every so often they'll make the vice a big deal for a week or two then drop it. If you want submissions have someone actually you know win multiple matches with it.
     
  7. There's more impact moves being used in general so it naturally follows there'd be more impact moves being used as finishers. Regular moves are more exciting as finishers, which is the main reason they're more common. They can come out of nowhere like the Stone Cold Stunner or the RKO or even the AA and end a match instantly. Submission finishers can work similarly sometimes, like Kurt Angle's Ankle Lock, where he would sometimes spring up from the mat like an awakening zombie and slap it on out of nowhere. But it works easier when you hit someone with a finisher that knocks them out instantly, whereas a submission finisher can take several seconds to get a tap out out of (though that can build drama as well, obviously.)

    Personally, I don't think this is done intentionally by the WWE. It's just that pinfalls and the idea of your shoulders being down for a three count seems more common in people's minds as a finish for a wrestling match and thus even guys with submissions moves in their arsenal end up pinning opponents for the finisher.
     
  8. Exactly. A rightly set up move and a move with the correct look (where you can see at least one of the guys face so they can sell the struggle with facial expressions, should be just as dramatic as an impact finisher.
     
  9. Who doesn't hold submissions in high regard? I'm just wondering
     
  10. I remember I used to try and Crossface friends at school. Good times.