Shinsuke vs Ali

Mr. Roman Empire

The Game
Main Eventer
11,656
2,255
1,243
5,434.69
How do you define “story telling?”
Story telling i would break up in 2 different way, but they are both still connected. First, would be the out of ring story. Who is the good guy and bad guy and why do they have conflict? The promos and segment that lead to the match are all apart of the story.

Second, would be in the ring. From bell to bell, what is the story the performer's in the match. Things like the facial expressions are just as important as the moves. How the wrestlers styles will be work off of their up opponent (size, strength, speed, etc). Does the heel pull dirty tactics to get heat? Does one wrestler persistently work on particular part of the wrestlers body to wear him down? All examples of story telling.
Post automatically merged:

...states the guy named after the wrestler with the personality of beige oatmeal.
Roman is way more over than Shinsuke and Ali. I mean Ali is still pretty new, but Shinsuke proved to be a bust. Japanese wrestlers can never carry over their domestic popularity the US. Roman on the otherhand is about to get into Hollywood and making movies. Hes a superstar.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: Grievous II

Snowman

Chillin' with the snowmies.
The IIconics
32,603
13,521
2,728
4,491.84
Why did Ali return at Smackville? I get Balor needs an injury replacement but could you not have found anyone on the roster who didn't have video packages hyping his return?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grievous II

InsaneAlphaBeta

The Guardian of Light
Mid-Carder
651
291
168
2,638.07
Roman is way more over than Shinsuke and Ali. I mean Ali is still pretty new, but Shinsuke proved to be a bust. Japanese wrestlers can never carry over their domestic popularity the US. Roman on the otherhand is about to get into Hollywood and making movies. Hes a superstar.
I must dissagree on one point. Shinsuke was not a bust, he got bad booking, him and Aj Styles could have had one of the best matches WWE had ever seen at wrestlemania, and not only were they not able to deliver on that, SHinsuke never beat AJ Styles, despite having oppertunity after oppertunity, even when it made sense. (He turned heel after losing, got a badass new entrance theme and everything and easily should have won, but Vince never let him become WWE champion.) and now here we are.

Shinsuke could have been in such a better position, but as is often the case, bad booking and them never pulling the trigger even when it was the perfect time caused this to happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brockamura

Grievous II

Is Unretrofied For You
Legend
13,067
12,577
2,033
16,872.52
Roman is way more over than Shinsuke and Ali. I mean Ali is still pretty new, but Shinsuke proved to be a bust. Japanese wrestlers can never carry over their domestic popularity the US. Roman on the other hand is about to get into Hollywood and making movies. Hes a superstar.
Yeah...Roman should be OVER at this point considering how
much time & effort the WWE spent trying to accomplish that...
and even then the only reason he's over now is he won a feud
against history's most hated heel...CANCER.

And Nakamura is only "a bust" because of how he was booked...

I'm sure if the WWE truly wanted him to be a top guy...they could
have achieved it...but no. No one gets over unless they want you
to be over. Its so lame...

Roman is a pathetically forced, "factory made Superstar"

Nothing about him feels real or organic because him being a
star was simply engineered & paid for by a senile old man.

If you like him...then good for you...

I think he's a boring, smug, over pushed bell end...and I doubt
I'll ever change my mind on that.
 

Mr. Roman Empire

The Game
Main Eventer
11,656
2,255
1,243
5,434.69
Yeah...Roman should be OVER at this point considering how
much time & effort the WWE spent trying to accomplish that...
and even then the only reason he's over now is he won a feud
against history's most hated heel...CANCER.

And Nakamura is only "a bust" because of how he was booked...

I'm sure if the WWE truly wanted him to be a top guy...they could
have achieved it...but no. No one gets over unless they want you
to be over. Its so lame...

Roman is a pathetically forced, "factory made Superstar"

Nothing about him feels real or organic because him being a
star was simply engineered & paid for by a senile old man.

If you like him...then good for you...

I think he's a boring, smug, over pushed bell end...and I doubt
I'll ever change my mind on that.
Shinsuke got a push. He won the Royal Rumble and had the opportunity to reach for that brass ring but he failed. Its not solely WWE creatives fault. Look at AJ Styles, i would say before WWE him and Shinsuke were on the same level and AJ became a top guy while Nakamura stayed a mid card talent.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Snowman

Mr. Roman Empire

The Game
Main Eventer
11,656
2,255
1,243
5,434.69
Can you explain to me what "Reaching for the brass ring" actually means?

I'm just curious...
Reaching for the brass ring is basically going above and beyond expectations when Vince McMahon gives you the opportunity. Roman and Cena are in the brass ring club. I would say Kofi and Rollins are currently in the process of grabbing that brass ring, they have been given the opportunity at least and I would say they are doing a decent job.
 

Grievous II

Is Unretrofied For You
Legend
13,067
12,577
2,033
16,872.52
Reaching for the brass ring is basically going above and beyond expectations when Vince McMahon gives you the opportunity. Roman and Cena are in the brass ring club. I would say Kofi and Rollins are currently in the process of grabbing that brass ring, they have been given the opportunity at least and I would say they are doing a decent job.
I don't believe that for a single second.

Cena & Reigns were pushed to a frankly ridiculous
degree despite the fans clearly rejecting them.
 

Mr. Roman Empire

The Game
Main Eventer
11,656
2,255
1,243
5,434.69
I don't believe that for a single second.

Cena & Reigns were pushed to a frankly ridiculous
degree despite the fans clearly rejecting them.
The fans that rejected them are the minority. The hardcore internet wrestling fans like people on here are such a small percentage. I bet its 15-20%. The other 80-85% of casual fans are what really matters.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: Snowman

Grievous II

Is Unretrofied For You
Legend
13,067
12,577
2,033
16,872.52
The fans that rejected them are the minority. The hardcore internet wrestling fans like people on here are such a small percentage. I bet its 15-20%. The other 80-85% of casual fans are what really matters.
That is one loud minority...

& you're saying your own opinion doesn't matter?

I mean you're part of the 15/20% right?
 

Mr. Roman Empire

The Game
Main Eventer
11,656
2,255
1,243
5,434.69
That is one loud minority...

& you're saying your own opinion doesn't matter?

I mean you're part of the 15/20% right?
The hardcore fanbase still matters. Thats the core of the WWE universe. But the other 80% of casual fans who buy a Roman Reigns or John Cena T-Shirt or action figure is so important. Cena and Reigns are more marketable than Shinsuke Nakamura. Thats not WWE creatives fault. I think its mostly due to Shinsuke being fron Japan. It has nothing to do with talent or creative.
 

edge4ever

The Game
Technician
5,696
1,967
668
2,003.44
Reaching for the brass ring is basically going above and beyond expectations when Vince McMahon gives you the opportunity. Roman and Cena are in the brass ring club. I would say Kofi and Rollins are currently in the process of grabbing that brass ring, they have been given the opportunity at least and I would say they are doing a decent job.
I think you’re missing the whole brass ring thing. Cena didn’t grab a brass ring at all. Sure, he’s a hard worker, fun on the mic, and charismatic, but his wrestling was okay, and he wasn’t a massive standout like the rock or hogan or stone cold, he simply catered to what you call the “casual fans.” They like his look, he’s “entertaining” most of the time, and looks like a poster boy wrestler. He’s marketable, basically. This doesn’t mean he grabbed brass ring, rather he’s got the look and enough charisma to be top dog, so they let him keep running with it. Plus, Cena is kind of an exception to most rules. He captured lighting in a bottle like 4 times if you ask me and most things pertaining to him blow my
Mind as to how he stayed on top for so long.

Also, Reigns is still no where near his level, so saying he grabbed the brass ring is beyond absurd, especially given the fact that tried so damn hard to make him the top dog, it’s far worse then WWE force feeding us Cena for a while. Reigns only sells what like a quarter of sometimes half of what Cena did or does, and he is no where near his charisma and ability to make entertaining feuds.

With that being said, Cena began to prove, in my eyes, how and why he should be a main eventer as time went on, but he became so overplayed in the main event scene, I couldn’t stand him anymore. Drove me nuts. This again, however, doesn’t mean he grabbed a brass ring. Rather, he’s a marketable easy to like character who got better with his in ring game.

With all the above being said, the only person to “grab the brass ring” in my book is cm punk. He truly took an opportunity, ceased it, and literally exploded onto the scene in one foul swoop. He was talented enough to where he could mic talk, wrestle, charismatic, entertaining, and was beyond believable. He broke the 4th wall so to speak. He could do heel or face very well. He grabbed the ring and ran with it if you ask me. He sold well and did everything well. He wasn’t marked on just looks and some charisma and his face, he was marketed because of true, raw talent and made people invested in everything he did.

The point is that the brass ring thing is pretty much a falsehood and is seldom grabbed by anybody. As cm punk even said himself, it’s imaginary, and it wasn’t until he was able to be himself more was he able to truly grab it. If he would’ve kept doing what Vince wanted, he would’ve quit and never exploded like that.

The way WWE works, or wrestling in general, is you do what you’re told. Most of your matches are nearly planned to a T and you act it out exactly how the feud should go. This is not to say how it goes every time, but usually that’s how it works. So, Cena just did what he was told. Sure, he did it well, but he didn’t grab a brass ring, he did what creative said and it happened to catch enough casual fans eyes that it kept people interested for longer than what I ever would’ve though it would. This isn’t saying Cena had nothing to do with it, of course he did and of course he’s talented. But he’s simply marketable and likeabke and fits the mold. Much like reigns kind of does, but he’s a worse version of Cena.

Make sense, hopefully?
 

Log in

or Log in using