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Orton can do whatever he wants backstage, so who knows if he did or not lol. Just like when he took his beating from Brock and was handed a rumble win and mania main event.

He had his jacket on fire, the fiend ran around and seemed fine, then got literally knocked out by an RKO. That’s it. In the land of wrestling make believe, it’s stupid based on the beatings the fiend has shown he can take without being taken out. Plus, the fiend was able to control the fire in the match and then is magically taken out by it on his coat and 1 RKO. Yeah, makes sense....

It was the fashion of the loss. He can lose, yeah. But how many times has the fiend lost anything? Once? On a horrible booking to Goldberg? Technically in a triple threat where he didn’t eat the pin? I guess the point is that he can be beat, but it needs to be something really significant. Something big. This felt underwhelming and lame. He should’ve been chained, Beaten with a pipe, nearly looked like he died, then lit on fire after Orton frantically and quickly catches him on fire. Instead, his jacket gets lit on fire when it doesn’t seem to effect him at all and then 1 RKO knocks him out cold. Lol. Yeah... makes complete sense.... then, WWE has Orton stand there for like 2 mins after hitting the RKO and slowly lit him on fire. Hahaha, yeah... makes sense. No rush. No frantic sense of urgency....

It was piss poor man.
I think you’re overestimate “pulls” in wrestling. I’d bet $1 billion that it was not Randy’s decision. Randy literally doesn’t care about wins/losses, he just wants money at this point in his career. He literally wanted Christian to keep the title in 2011 which again was a Vince decision. Undertaker, Stone Cold and various others hated the streak ending to Brock, which again, was a Vince decision.

And like I said before, I don’t think it’s piss poor booking. The Fiend doesn’t need to win every match, he’s not an unstoppable force. He’s been beaten before and will be again in the future. I think you’re just looking at one match and painting the whole picture.

John Cena vs Nexus is bad booking
The Undertaker losing the streak to Brock is bad booking
Seth Rollins vs The Fiend at HIAC is terrible booking
Randy Orton winning by lighting The Fiend on fire/RKO who will get revenge isn’t bad booking.

If The Fiend won, where does he go because it’s Mania season and Vince is trying to have a blockbuster card for that, not McIntyre vs The Fiend which no casual fan would care about.
 

edge4ever

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I think you’re overestimate “pulls” in wrestling. I’d bet $1 billion that it was not Randy’s decision. Randy literally doesn’t care about wins/losses, he just wants money at this point in his career. He literally wanted Christian to keep the title in 2011 which again was a Vince decision. Undertaker, Stone Cold and various others hated the streak ending to Brock, which again, was a Vince decision.

And like I said before, I don’t think it’s piss poor booking. The Fiend doesn’t need to win every match, he’s not an unstoppable force. He’s been beaten before and will be again in the future. I think you’re just looking at one match and painting the whole picture.

John Cena vs Nexus is bad booking
The Undertaker losing the streak to Brock is bad booking
Seth Rollins vs The Fiend at HIAC is terrible booking
Randy Orton winning by lighting The Fiend on fire/RKO who will get revenge isn’t bad booking.

If The Fiend won, where does he go because it’s Mania season and Vince is trying to have a blockbuster card for that, not McIntyre vs The Fiend which no casual fan would care about.
I just gave you an example not too long ago where orton used his pull. God knows if that was truly a Vince decision. Most likely it was, but I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if orton really pushed to be the one who “killed” the fiend because maybe Vinny owed spoiled bitch boy a favor?

Did you read my post at all? Lol. I literally said I didn’t like the fashion of the loss. Even if the fiend did lose, okay, fair enough. But how? A shitty match with his coat on fire. Yeah... totally cool.

To be fair, I think the story is getting more interesting because of Alexa bliss and Ortons ability to be a good heel when he wants to try, but that doesn’t negate the shitty ending to the fiend at TLC.
 
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Randy Orton in recent tears has been well known to be a chill dude wanting to help people out. He isn't going to try and dictate things back stage. He is Randy Orton he don'tcare about wins and losses. The last 5 years he has done nothing but try and put people over. We can only go off by character statement of his peers and no one currently had a bad word to say about him. Go back to the roster 10 to 15 years ago then you would have a different answer.

But yh I've already explained in this thread that this is a story where it is required for the Fiend to get beat so that he can rise from the ashes and get his ultimate revenge. Dont see the problem in Orton winning at all. I can see why you would not like the booking of the match that's fair but I would say the majority of people do not have a problem with the Fiend losing after getting set on fire.

Fire is the Fiends weakness. It's where all of his torment comes from. Randy burnt sister Abigail to a crisp
 
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edge4ever

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Randy Orton in recent tears has been well known to be a chill dude wanting to help people out. He isn't going to try and dictate things back stage. He is Randy Orton he don'tcare about wins and losses. The last 5 years he has done nothing but try and put people over. We can only go off by character statement of his peers and no one currently had a bad word to say about him. Go back to the roster 10 to 15 years ago then you would have a different answer.

But yh I've already explained in this thread that this is a story where it is required for the Fiend to get beat so that he can rise from the ashes and get his ultimate revenge. Dont see the problem in Orton winning at all. I can see why you would not like the booking of the match that's fair but I would say the majority of people do not have a problem with the Fiend losing after getting set on fire.

Fire is the Fiends weakness. It's where all of his torment comes from. Randy burnt sister Abigail to a crisp
I’m not saying randy isn’t willing to put over talent or anything like that. Rather, he’s also the kind of guy that if he’s not engaged in something he feels is worth his time, he doesn’t try or give a shit. And it’s noted he did get his win over bray and rumble because he took that beating by Brock. At the end of the day, based on his whiny track record and such, I could see him doing it. Granted, it was most likely Vince.

You didn’t read my post either it seems. It’s more about how he won, not that he won. Also, Orton doesn’t get hurt by a loss to the fiend either so it goes both ways.

Yeah, it’s his weakness so much that he could literally control it in the match.... makes sense lol. Then merely gets his coat on fire and runs around just fine and gets planted with an RKO so that orton can stand there for 2 mins and grin and get all crazy stupid and catch him on fire. It’s dumb. The way it happened and how easily it actually happened, was dumb. You book a monster character who’s been unstoppable for like a year and a half and what kills him? His jacket on fire and 1 RKO. Mind you, he’s taken about 10 curb stomps back to back and didn’t flinch. It’s inconsistent and stupid.

You can justify the outcome of the match, Randy winning, all you want, and you may even have some points, but the way it happened and how he won: fucking stupid.
 

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Randy Orton in recent tears has been well known to be a chill dude wanting to help people out. He isn't going to try and dictate things back stage. He is Randy Orton he don'tcare about wins and losses. The last 5 years he has done nothing but try and put people over. We can only go off by character statement of his peers and no one currently had a bad word to say about him. Go back to the roster 10 to 15 years ago then you would have a different answer.

But yh I've already explained in this thread that this is a story where it is required for the Fiend to get beat so that he can rise from the ashes and get his ultimate revenge. Dont see the problem in Orton winning at all. I can see why you would not like the booking of the match that's fair but I would say the majority of people do not have a problem with the Fiend losing after getting set on fire.

Fire is the Fiends weakness. It's where all of his torment comes from. Randy burnt sister Abigail to a crisp

I’m not saying randy isn’t willing to put over talent or anything like that. Rather, he’s also the kind of guy that if he’s not engaged in something he feels is worth his time, he doesn’t try or give a shit. And it’s noted he did get his win over bray and rumble because he took that beating by Brock. At the end of the day, based on his whiny track record and such, I could see him doing it. Granted, it was most likely Vince.

You didn’t read my post either it seems. It’s more about how he won, not that he won. Also, Orton doesn’t get hurt by a loss to the fiend either so it goes both ways.

Yeah, it’s his weakness so much that he could literally control it in the match.... makes sense lol. Then merely gets his coat on fire and runs around just fine and gets planted with an RKO so that orton can stand there for 2 mins and grin and get all crazy stupid and catch him on fire. It’s dumb. The way it happened and how easily it actually happened, was dumb. You book a monster character who’s been unstoppable for like a year and a half and what kills him? His jacket on fire and 1 RKO. Mind you, he’s taken about 10 curb stomps back to back and didn’t flinch. It’s inconsistent and stupid.

You can justify the outcome of the match, Randy winning, all you want, and you may even have some points, but the way it happened and how he won: fucking stupid.
Well yeah it's an inferno match of course it was going to be stupid. I just disagree with it being stupid because of the way bray won. Thank goodness we are not dealing with him kicking out of 57 curb stomps. Refreshing to see a monster heel be stopped in a realistic manner.
 

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Well yeah it's an inferno match of course it was going to be stupid. I just disagree with it being stupid because of the way bray won. Thank goodness we are not dealing with him kicking out of 57 curb stomps. Refreshing to see a monster heel be stopped in a realistic manner.
After some time to think on it, i do agree with you.

The timing honestly was just horrible on my part, i had not watched in several months, literally. And when i do return, its basicly the same old story, so ofcourse at first it will be annoying to see that happen to the fiend.

But, if they do go the back from the dead route where the fiend returns afetr being burned alive, well then that could be awesome.

But i wouldnt put it past WWE to fuck it up even if they go that route.
 
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After some time to think on it, i do agree with you.

The timing honestly was just horrible on my part, i had not watched in several months, literally. And when i do return, its basicly the same old story, so ofcourse at first it will be annoying to see that happen to the fiend.

But, if they do go the back from the dead route where the fiend returns afetr being burned alive, well then that could be awesome.

But i wouldnt put it past WWE to fuck it up even if they go that route.
Pussy
 
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After some time to think on it, i do agree with you.

The timing honestly was just horrible on my part, i had not watched in several months, literally. And when i do return, its basicly the same old story, so ofcourse at first it will be annoying to see that happen to the fiend.

But, if they do go the back from the dead route where the fiend returns afetr being burned alive, well then that could be awesome.

But i wouldnt put it past WWE to fuck it up even if they go that route.
If I not watched since the Fiend losing to Goldberg, then I would be annoyed if I came back and saw The Fiend literally get buried alive lol
 
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I love how the heels keep kicking it. The Fiend and Alexa Bliss are two fine examples of villains. Audacious and sinister, both have shocked crowds as of late, like Brock Lesnar used to back in the ruthless aggression era or Stone Cold back in the dawn of the attitude.
 

FlandyOrton

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I love coming back to wrestling after several months of absence, only to see that not a damn thing has changed. I love coming back to watching WWE only to have them shove their middle finger in my face and up my ass without my consent.

Hell in a Cell 2019 was a disaster, not only did they kill the match with a DQ ending, but it was the first match the fiend got screwed over in, and i dont mean ascrewy finish, even fi thats true for the cell match. im talking the fiend getting booked horribly and wasted.

Its like Bryan Alvarez said before, the arrogence of this company, they are gonna shit on their fans, because they know they will just keep watching, they can fuck over as much talent as they can, ruin their best superstars, and people are just gonna keep tuneing in every single damn week.

Look at Keith Lee, he is by all accounts absolutely incredible, but what have they done with him since bringign him up to the main roster? wasting him, thats what always happens with the NXT callups, unless your roman reigns or seth rollins, you get fucked over with shitty booking. Brays whole career has been plagued with shitty booking, from them wasting the wyatt family and wasting bray himself. Bray was so damn over and yet they didnt let him win, and as a result of him always losing anything he said meant nothing, you couldnt beleive in him because he always lost...and then, the fiend was born.

The firefly funhous ewas a brilliant idea by bray and it was the best thing on the show, and the fiend was also the best thing in WWE for awhile, his spooky appearnces made for awesome moments, but just like they always do it wouldnt be long before WWE fucked him up. Enter hell in a cell.

this has been talked about to death, ending the match in DQ hurt the fiend a ton, it killed the hell in a cell, and the red lighting was awful, but the fiends downward spiral didnt stop, he then lost to goldberg for literaly no reason, he beat john cena in what really wasnt even a match. and it was around that time i lef.

I had gotten out of my mood for wrestling, i had things to work on and i wasnt in the mood to watch wrestling, not WWE or AEW.

And so i unfolllowed wrestling channels i watched in the past, people on twitter, i completely disconnected from it all, and then as you know sting returned and so did i.

Several months past, youd think in that time things would change? things would get better in WWE? but as i caught up on the news...i realised it only got worse, ordering people not to wear masks, firing talent who they ddint need to fire due to money issues which they dont have becauyse they got 500 million in reserves alone. failing with top NXT talent like keith lee and matt riddle. And now, TLC, the first WWE PPV i decided to watch, mainly for the fiend.

And then, in the main event of the show, the match happened, it was great at first, but just like hell in a cell, it ended in disaster, ortan not only won the match, but he knocked out fiend with a single RKO and then let the fiend on fire, literally killing the fiend.

Nothing... has changed. This company is just as arrogent then as they were now.

Ima leave you all with this clip of Bryan Alvarez talking about this company, and i want you to keep in mind this was from over 1 year ago, and everything he says is still relevent today, and its only gotten worse.


I can't like this enough...

I feel your pain& holy crap somebody else that listens to Bryan. Literally the only fun thing about WWE now is listening to Bryan trash it, it's hilarious... or talking about how ridiculous they are on your own.

It's actually really sad thinking about how much I use to worship these guys as a child. Vince has to go, there's just no way around it. He's killed any legendary moments he's ever created by making his product & wrestling look ridiculous, it all just blends together as a stupid show to people. Any Champions of the past look pointless since the belts are all now pointless.

I just came back to this site to talk about wrestling today because it's a habit but that perfectly describes the only reason WWE has fans left, habit. They sit there & fall asleep every week. It's so bad, like such a ridiculous an embarrassing show to have somebody walk in the room & see you watching it & they're like "what the hell are you watching?"

I grew up on wrestling, started watching in 96 but since 2003 it's been getting worse & worse. At 1st there was some good stuff here & there, the legends were still all there, Angle, Rock Austin.... then there was Evolution, Nexus & some great matches on PPV. They even had a good WM or Rumble here & there but then the "here & there" starting getting further & further apart until it was non existent.

I use to have so much faith as a kid because they brainwashed me. Then I kept coming back because I wanted that feeling back. I really kind of wish I would've just stopped watching in my childhood so I could remember it how it was. It's literally become impossible to watch RAW & SD for me, even when fast forwarding through practically everything & on mute so I don't hear the worst announcing literally in fkng history. I use to love NXT, or UK but I haven't tuned into that forever because nobody watches anymore & anything they build up is killed by Vince. Takeovers are usually great ppvs but I mean, you still can't invest.

I like AEW & want them to succeed because FCK Vince but there's too much comedy & factions. They need to start being more serious & big time feel behind that show.

You're free to talk all things NJPW, AEW, NXT or any other actual wrestling shows with me anytime & then we can just make fun of WWE because they're fkng ridiculous 🍻
 
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FlandyOrton

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I disagree with not getting rowdy over it. If enough people are canceling the WWE network, I have a feeling Vince and others will respond if it hits their bottom line, pocketbooks. The problem with fans is exactly what you said: they don’t get rowdy enough and nothing happens. If fans actually started cancelling in droves, WWE would listen, because their stock would drop. Instead, people have the mentality of “it won’t change;” well, that’s true if you don’t give them a reason to change.
To hell with not getting rowdy, it's up to us to fix it!
 

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Sorry but what is wrong with Orton winning? The Fiend is quite literally a horror movie monster. You burn him alive and then he comes alive and gets his revenge. Its basic storytelling. I dont see how you can have a problem with this match. The Fiend is such a force that the only way to end him is to literally be burnt alive.


He was burning alive.... then got hit by an rko. And he wasnt even knocked out for a long time before he got burnt alive. I dont see the problem. It doesn't make the Fiend look weak or foolish.

The monster gets taken out and everybody thinks he is gone forever then boom he is back. Really basic cliche from the horror genre. I dont see how this buries Bray in anyway if anything but enhances the character

Yeah... horror movie monsters are scary because they kill people!

Who tha fack is scared of this guy who loses every match & can't beat anybody up?

Bray was SO over before he came up to the main roster... when he first came up with his character. He was just like a weird cult leader who cut really good promos, beat people up & lived on a farm. Like a mix between Charles Manson & dude love, it was so refreshing.

Vince sees this man & is like "LET'S TURN HIM INTO THE UNDERTAKER! HAHAHA!" Gives him special powers, a lantern and having him appear out of the blue. Then makes him lose every freaking match & not only that but just SHOVES & RUBS the gimmick right in your face & beats it to death!

Bray miraculously finds a way to stay alive by reinventing himself as The Fiend, a whole new guy who shouldn't have lost a match since he showed up. A REALLY cool concept with endless possibilities where he can turn guys heel or back to their old selves. Perfect & easy way for legends to come back or to immediately hault a guy as a face if it's not working at any time in multiple situations. Heel or Thuganomics Cena, Monster Kane, heel Sting attacks Taker with a bat ANYBODY... Vince does the EXACT same thing again! Kills it!

Some how... HHH got Enzo & Cas over AF in NXT. They come up, Vince gets them to go out EVERY single night... saying the exact same thing EVERY night until ya just wanna puke, just beats ya over the head with it until he kills it.

Vince McMahon is an overrated promoter & an evil person all around who capatalized on Hulk because it was an obvious move, everybody wanted him & he was handed the biggest platform for Hulk by Vince Sr. Then after Hogan was gone he took great ideas from all the people who worked for him like Pat Patterson or from the other competition like the Attitude Era from Heyman along with the biggest star with the attitude. Until there was no competition to steal from making his show boring AF. He has ZERO idea on how to make superstars unless they're giants & that's only because it's easy, have them stand there & look huge & oily. He has even less of a clue in his old age, the guy has to go.
 
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Yeah... horror movie monsters are scary because they kill people!

Who tha fack is scared of this guy who loses every match & can't beat anybody up?

Bray was SO over before he came up to the main roster... when he first came up with his character. He was just like a weird cult leader who cut really good promos, beat people up & lived on a farm. Like a mix between Charles Manson & dude love, it was so refreshing.

Vince sees this man & is like "LET'S TURN HIM INTO THE UNDERTAKER! HAHAHA!" Gives him special powers, a lantern and having him appear out of the blue. Then makes him lose every freaking match & not only that but just SHOVES & RUBS the gimmick right in your face & beats it to death!

Bray miraculously finds a way to stay alive by reinventing himself as The Fiend, a whole new guy who shouldn't have lost a match since he showed up. A REALLY cool concept with endless possibilities where he can turn guys heel or back to their old selves. Perfect & easy way for legends to come back or to immediately hault a guy as a face if it's not working at any time in multiple situations. Heel or Thuganomics Cena, Monster Kane, heel Sting attacks Taker with a bat ANYBODY... Vince does the EXACT same thing again! Kills it!

Some how... HHH got Enzo & Cas over AF in NXT. They come up, Vince gets them to go out EVERY single night... saying the exact same thing EVERY night until ya just wanna puke, just beats ya over the head with it until he kills it.

Vince McMahon is an overrated promoter & an evil person all around who capatalized on Hulk because it was an obvious move, everybody wanted him & he was handed the biggest platform for Hulk by Vince Sr. Then after Hogan was gone he took great ideas from all the people who worked for him like Pat Patterson or from the other competition like the Attitude Era from Heyman along with the biggest star with the attitude. Until there was no competition to steal from making his show boring AF. He has ZERO idea on how to make superstars unless they're giants & that's only because it's easy, have them stand there & look huge & oily. He has even less of a clue in his old age, the guy has to go.

Hogan was but one of many. The list is huge. Diesel, Earthquake, Sid and Yokuzuna, all fit the bill and it was only by divine miracle that Bret Hart, his brother Owen, Daniel Bryan and the other lighter guys got over. Had Vince had his way, the Big Show and Mark Henry would've had plenty of company and the smaller guys would've been crushed underfoot without any remorse. Just so happens the balance was redressed along the way, but not too often, sadly.
 

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