Discussion in 'General WWE' started by Ed!, Jul 6, 2014.
Vince is a lemon
He should be a Rosebud.
Seriously, a no-build, two-minute (I didn't time it; it might have been three or four) match against a guy who has basically become a jobber with a nonsensical gimmick (God, I hope it leads to something, but it currently sucks) was "his big PPV chance"?
If that's the case, Vince hates the guy and he's got "no chance in Hell" of making it in WWE anyway.
Leo Kruger would've went over better.
Great that they see Damien Sandow as the guy who can give Rose the best chance to get over on. They're totally right in that regard.
Just wonder why there's this big disconnect between the main roster and NXT. Know there's this Triple H/Kevin Dunn power struggle, but who's calling these guys up without knowing how to use their characters in the same manner that got them over on NXT? I weep for the days when anybody, and I mean anybody, gets called up. How many characters are better off on Raw than they were on NXT? The Wyatts, and.........
Don't think Leo Kruger is the answer either, that gimmick was so "meh". But Adam Rose sticking around for a while and eventually doing an angle where he becomes the vicious Leo Kruger again? That could be interesting.
The gimmick was never going to work on the main roster. It was obvious that he could only be used as a comedy jobber. I'm sick of these failed call-ups from NXT. Put some thought into it and only promote guarenteed successes. I'm guessing the reason Zayn hasn't been called-up is that they're waiting for the right storyline to avoid him failing like Rose, Rusev, Woods, Emma, Paige, etc.
1) Rusev hasn't exactly failed.
2) Snow's right. Allowing his character to build some familiarity with the audience before transitioning into a harsher, more violent character (maybe even revealing that "Adam Rose" is his stage name, but "Leo Kruger" is his real name.....probably too "inside baseball" to make any kind of difference, so too confusing, so not a good idea) and combining the good aspects of both gimmicks is probably the best way to get Rose over.
Really, though. The best thing for Adam Rose (as it is for any character in any fictional setting if you want the fans to care about them) is for him to not be a one-dimensional character. Characters that develop and change over time in response to a cohesive, thought-out story is the best idea for any of the WWE performers.
Vince seems to be questioning all of the called-up NXT superstars despite not giving most of them proper build and giving them feuds to get over with. Rose has suffered from a lack of any real feuds, I believe he would have gotten over if he was allowed to show off his wrestling ability with a feud with Swagger that culminated in an actual PPV match (and not one on a Smackdown go home show) and the chance to get some build with Sandow who would most likely be able to draw some heat and Rose could get one over on him. Xavier Woods just popped up one day and was paired into the Funkashits or whatever they're called and then with R-Truth but was always losing matches before disappearing for some time. Emma was put with Santino which would have been alright if she got to leave and wrestle with the Divas Division once people knew who she was... but then she had the "epic 10/10 would watch again MOTYCs" with Fandango and Summer Rae for months and nobody really cares.
I guess Paige didn't do so bad as she got a title reign and several defences before finally feuding with AJ Lee, and Rusev's beginning his feud with Swagger and he's drawing heat from the 'muricans. I guess the Wyatt Family and The Shield have been the most successful without a doubt (but I'm assuming they started completely in NXT, as I wasn't regularly watching in those days) because they were immediately put into feuds with people we care about, beat them and moved on almost immediately to get some more feuds over and done with. This is what they need to do. Focus on their strength + weaknesses and know how to exploit the former, giving them good feuds and trying to give them a chance to have matches regularly. And then there's what Wacokid said... develop their characters beyond the first main snippet we've said upon their debut. There's a reason why nobody cares about some of these characters when they've hardly been given time to connect with the audience.
As usual, you are absolutely correct and holy crap is this place different with WK around.
I saw one guy on Twitter put it perfectly: "So the whole gimmick is just the song, entrance and catchphrase. That's it?" You need more than that. A LOT more. There's nothing here that the fans can connect to, but it's easy for a mind more creative than mine to come up with so many ways to get this gimmick over... unfortunately anyone working for WWE doesn't qualify in that regard.
The NXT characters failing thing is almost hurting my enjoyment of that show. Sure, it's still fun to watch Adrian Neville vs Tyler Breeze, but you still have this thought in the back of your mind of "The minute these guys get called up to the main roster, they're dead." Like, look at the journey we've been on with Breeze. The guy's the dude who takes selfies one week, then they add his phone screen to the titantron. Then he's posing with the phone next to his fallen opponents, then he doesn't like getting hit in the face... It seemed like every week there was a new wrinkle added to the character... and then he eventually snapped after getting hit one too many times and he's become the "Vicious Tyler Breeze" who'll happily kick you in the face right back. Meanwhile, he also became a really good wrestler while he's at it, which helps a LOT. None of these things are specifically important, but you add it all together and it feels like a story's being played out.
Anyway, back on topic: Another thing that would help is WWE realizing they aren't cool. Michael Cole jumping up and down to Rose's music is the easiest way to guarantee this guy never get over.
Yeah, whenever Cole goes about how much fun Rose or Emma are it's just sad. Well, yeah, you guys noted the problem already. Rose, Emma and Woods were given nothing. That's just sad. Paige and Rusev weren't that bad and are getting better now with some more interesting programs. You can't just throw people on the main roster like that, especially when they don't have a defined character. If you guys remember Bray when he came up, he worked with Kane and then did nothing for a few months, started getting over when he worked with Punk and Bryan. But also he had his promos all the time, which helped. When you call up one-dimensional characters and give them nothing, they die. Simple.
I wasn't really behind the gimmick in NXT either, but Adam Rose seems to be over with the crowd on NXT far better than he has with the main WWE viewing audience. Why not have him feud with Fandango or something like that, so he has an opportunity to showcase the gimmick in the ring? So far it seems like a nice entrance to the ring with the mob of dancers and partiers, but it doesn't translate into a wrestling gimmick. I want to see more about how this could benefit him as a competitor (like if he become a cultural phenomenon of sorts with crazed fans that would do anything to see him win, and would therefore interfere in his matches).
I suppose Hunter Hearst Helmsley had long-term potential, did it not?
If the character was so great, why not cut the guy instead of him jobbing for a year after the MSG incident?
The only thing saving Fandango's gimmick was the New Jersey crowd trending the finger gimmick while tooting his theme
His WM debut was enough to warrant defeating Y2J (which means little these days, I suppose), but he's still being featured enough
I get the impression Vince is more uptight than usual these days because probably itching to return to TV
HHH and Steph are pulling things off so well Vince is probably concerned about being a buzzkill
In reality, Vince would be wrong to return to TV and ruin HHH/Steph's momentum.
In the interim, I think wants to return and, deep down, we'd like to see it too.
And you've framed perfectly the deal with the Adam Rose gimmick.
In a smaller, more intimate setting where the fans are thoroughly invested in the talent due to intense familiarity (like NXT or TNA), it's fairly easy for the gimmick to get over. But WWE, with its larger arenas and less intimate fan interactions, it's next to impossible for it to get over without just getting lucky.
I honestly haven't been a fan of Adam Rose at all, and this is coming from a guy that didn't watch him at all in NXT. From my first impression I thought it was flat out dumb, the dude has talent, but he comes out dancing with a bunch of "Rosebuds" and looking like a fool. I still have yet to understand "Don't be a lemon, be a Rosebud" like what the fuck does that even mean hahah. From all the guys that came up from NXT recently, he is certainly the most uninteresting and the only one I have skipped over on my DVR.
The other part may be that the Full Sail crowd is always willing to give a character a chance, while so many similar gimmicks on the main roster have lead to nothing... Is there any way to re-condition the WWE fans into believing in a character like Rose?
The only thing that ever seemed over about Rose is the same thing that's over with Fandango, Music.
I too agree with most of what has already been noted above. I mean, we've seen over the years awesome entrances like the Undertaker (perhaps by far the best of them all), HHH, Goldberg and so many more and then this? A dumb jumping up and down with a lollipop and all these followers in silly costumes? Pff. I know it's supposed to be entertainment and all but still, way too silly, at least for my taste.
The whole character plainly sucks in my humble opinion and I can't blame Vince secomd guessing the idea.
Bo Dallas, for example, we've seen some development the last few weeks. What is there to expect from Adam Rose's character?
I don't think there is, short of taking the company into an entirely backwards direction.
I actually think that HHH's "Reality Era" is what we really have going in wrestling today. The reason we have so many "plain vanilla" gimmicks that are basically copies of each other with different minor characteristics (Alberto Del Rio, Sheamus, and Jack Swagger are basically the same character, just with differing ethnic/national backgrounds, for example) is that WWE fans want realistic gimmicks and the basic background of those gimmicks is that the "Superstars" all have the same basic gimmick: being professional fighters.
Every now and then, a character can get over with an odd or "different" gimmick, but I think the reality of the current era is that most gimmicks like that just won't work (obviously, Stardust is the exception to this rule......).
The problem is with how formulaic Vince McMahon still is. Remember, Vince is the guy who abhors all Taker incarnations except the deadman.
So, in effect, Vince is the most hypocritical of all. He wants guys to have gimmicks, but the ones they get one Vince proceeds to look for how it might be wrong.
Why go through the process of making vignettes, spending the cash when you're ultimately going to 'bulldog' the guy not even two months into his debut?
Gimmicks are very comic book/cartoon-ish and those media are extremely successful when using gimmicks
However, unless a guy can become the gimmick (ala Cody Rhodes has proven twice) and make it larger than life, then don't bother.
WWE is in too deep with broken kayfabe, social media to escape reality as they used to before. Once you get in bed with the parasitic TMZ you've lost the credibility to suspend reality
Kevin Dunn doesn't even like wrestling. If anyone needs to get the fuck out, it's him.
I like the Adam Rose character, but to me he's going to be used about as well as Xavier Woods.
The hypocrisy that is Vince is baffling.
The whole bunny thing has Vince written all over it.
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