Why is Bret Hart so great?

Discussion in 'General WWE' started by PSachkovsky, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. Now, before I get flamed and hated by probably some of Bret Hart's fans on here, hear me out.

    I never really found him the "best there is" nor "the best there was", because quite frankly he wasn't the best at all. His mic skills was stale (even worst than John Cena's). He wasn't as technical as guys like Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle. Even Owen Hart (R.I.P.) surpassed him as far as technical ability.

    He didn't have 'many' memorable feuds. His most memorable, and most talked about is his feud with Shawn Michaels, and not even because of the feud, but for what happened at Montreal.

    For me the 'best' are named like Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan, hell, even John Cena. I never understood what is so great about Bret Hart. To me he's saving grace was that Hulk Hogan wasn't around at the time he was the WWE Champion. I mean, there weren't many guys to put the belt on, and they went with Bret Hart, because, obviously, they had no one else. But, again, that just means he was the last resort to go to, and not because he was a great wrestler.

    What do you guys and girls think?
     
  2. *Takes a deep breath*

    First and most importantly, I assume you have no interest in the art of telling a story during a match. Hart was the BEST in ring storyteller of all time, each match had a unique beginning, middle, and end that had the crowd invested.

    As for feuds, seriously? He made SCSA in their feud, his feud with Micheals is legendary, he had a great rivalry with Diesel, Backlund @"Leo C" , Bulldog, PERFECT, and his feud with his brother was incredible.

    As for his mic skills, yes at first he wasn't very good. However, he worked at until he became one of the best in the business in the late 90s. The anti American promos are some of the best ever.

    He was also able to be loved everywhere in the world, whilst being hated by Americans. No one before or since has been able to do that.

    Technically he was amazing, Benoit had his best match against Bret in their tribute to Owen match. Countless others have had their best matches against him, that my friend, is no fluke.

    In conclusion, he is the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.
     
  3. What storytelling? Laying on the ground holding someone's arm is not storytelling. Hell, Shawn Michaels in their feud at Survivor Series was a better storyteller than he is.

    To me, all the guys you just mentioned are far superior to Bret Hart. Owen Hart was a guy who actually evolved and surpassed Bret Hart in everything. He was a better technician than Hitman, he was a better on the mic.

    That's the main problem, it's easy to say that someone has mic skills this days, judging by the way he talks as a heel. I mean I can do load of sh*t acting as a heel and they will call me the best talker in the business. But, when he was mostly face, is there any promo that you remember that is worth mentioning?

    Oh, c'mon, he was mostly loved by the Canadian audience. No one gave a damn about him in Europe, he was only liked because he had the British Bulldog next to him.

    Benoit surpassed him, whether you like to believe it or not. You want to tell me is a better technician than Kurt Angle? A better technician than Chris Jericho? Ric Flair? Mr. Perfect?

    Look at his in-ring moves. They mostly consist of kicks and punches, and takedowns and arm wrenches...

     
  4. What storytelling? Laying on the ground holding someone's arm is not storytelling. Hell, Shawn Michaels in their feud at Survivor Series was a better storyteller than he is.

    Don't have the patience to write it out myself so I copied a perfect example from google:

    Storytelling is the act of formatting a match wherein it has a beginning, middle, and end, without any plot holes. Example, wrestler A comes into the match with taped ribs, so logically, wrestler B should attack the ribs. If Wrestler A knows how to do his job right and "tell a story", in 2 minutes you won't see him acting as if his ribs are perfectly ok. For the rest of the match, he should act in accordance to the time frame, the attack, and the level of the attack. Someone works your arm the whole match, you shouldn't be able to lift up a planet. Someone works on your legs, you shouldn't be able to run full speed and do tons of kicking attacks and leg-based maneuvers.

    The other aspect of storytelling is the arc of building suspense up towards the finish. It's much more exciting overall to see a match where it can be outlined as having twists and turns and close-calls and such, rather than just a random series of moves that simply come to an end out of nowhere. Storytelling includes calming the crowd down slightly, boosting their intensity when they're becoming a bit bored, and keeping up a pace that makes sense for both the wrestlers involved and the relation to the rest of the card. Also, storytelling involves staying in character, as heels do certain things differently than faces (or not at all, depending on the act, like cheating when the ref's back is turned and such).

    Basically, storytelling is everything that the wrestler is responsible for in execution OUTSIDE of the sheer athleticism of being able to do the moves.

    To me, all the guys you just mentioned are far superior to Bret Hart. Owen Hart was a guy who actually evolved and surpassed Bret Hart in everything. He was a better technician than Hitman, he was a better on the mic.

    Like you said, to you. You're allowed your opinion, completely disagree, nothing I could say can change your mind.

    That's the main problem, it's easy to say that someone has mic skills this days, judging by the way he talks as a heel. I mean I can do load of sh*t acting as a heel and they will call me the best talker in the business. But, when he was mostly face, is there any promo that you remember that is worth mentioning?

    He was a working class hero type, nothing that set the world on fire, but still much better than most faces today ie Orton and Sheamus.

    Oh, c'mon, he was mostly loved by the Canadian audience. No one gave a damn about him in Europe, he was only liked because he had the British Bulldog next to him.

    Were you even around at the time? He was over more in Europe than anywhere, he's legendary in Germany for one. As for Bulldog, your logic only works for England.

    Benoit surpassed him, whether you like to believe it or not. You want to tell me is a better technician than Kurt Angle? A better technician than Chris Jericho? Ric Flair? Mr. Perfect?

    Again, opinion. All of those guys you mentioned have said that Bret brought out the best in them, that he was the best worker they've worked with, or he was an inspiration to them. I could find sources, but I'm still sick and tired.

    As for the iron man match, you wanted high spots for an hour+ of course there were going to be a lot of punches and kicks.
     
  5. Look at how credible he made a young guy like 1-2-3 Kid look, this is storytelling:


     
  6. Was going to mention his match against Waltman, that was awesome. I think his Hitman character was very good too, a guy who went out there to wrestle, his entrance with theme song playing on the background fitted him perfectly. In the ring he was a great technician, I watched his matches vs Kid and Bob Backlund, and they're great. His match vs Backlund at Superstars for the WWF title has a great story to it, Bob finally getting his title shot and Bret, the current champ, holding his ground, but with him only winning with a roll up proving that they were pretty much equals. So from what I know about Bret Hart, he's good. Won't say the best, but very good.
     
  7. Backlund was a memorable feud op.Not really a Bret fan but he does have good matches in his CV.
     
  8. He wasn't the best in the ring (Michaels, Angle, Benoit, Jericho, etc. all outrank him, I agree) but was still very good. I personally find Ric Flair the most overrated when it comes to ring skills. Bret at least had one of my favorite matches ever with Mr. Perfect at Summerslam 1991. Can't say the same about Flair.

    His mic skills weren't that good, true.

    And you can say that he mainly got the world title because there wasn't anyone better around, but isn't that always the case? You get to be world champion when you prove you can carry the company better than others. Bret proved this during the New Generation era. They tried to pass the title back to Hulk Hogan but Hogan had lost all of his steam by that point. They tried to make Lex Luger the new Hogan, but he lost his momentum going into WM10 while Bret was gaining momentum. Diesel drew the worst as world champion, which wasn't entirely his fault, but that's another story. Michaels was given the belt because he was every bit as good as the ring as Bret but more charismatic, but just like 1995, the WWF lost money in 1996. Of course, it was the dark ages of the WWF in some ways, but then no one with any sense would ever put Bret on the same level of Hogan, Austin, Rock, Cen and others in terms of overall package or star power.

    To say that nobody cared about him in Europe is wrong. Vince has even said that he was one of the company's biggest international draws ever, and that he certainly helped in the early/mid 90's when the company was finally starting to tour internationally (before that, they only did shows in America and Canada.) Bret Hart was really only an average/below average draw in America.