WWE haven't done enough with The Shield imo

Discussion in 'RAW' started by Crayo, Mar 10, 2013.

  1. There is not enough back story to this. All we know is that they have attacked people because Heyman employed them, but that gives us more questions than answers. Are they actually his employees, or do they just do him favours? How did Heyman find them? Why are they attacking people now if Paul is clearly caught up in another feud that Shield aren't in? They need to build these guys as the outlaws they clearly are, and not just have it as the typical "bad group doing bad things because they're bad" ideology that insults many of the fans.

    I feel like if this were TNA we would at least have more talking segments with Shield so they can explain it, and more selling from the company. Now Shield are seemingly feuding with Big Show and stuff, but why? Why would they concern themselves with that? It will be just another random midcard feud to fill a Wrestlemania spot, when it can be so so much more.
     
  2. They stated that they formed because Dusty Rhodes told them down in NXT/FCW that they needed to seize opportunities. They also said something about feeling overlooked for call ups or something and thus felt that the system was wrong. This was pretty early in their run but what I made out as their backstory from it. How they got in cahoots with Heyman I don't know though.
     
  3. Yeah they were always going to botch this IMO, it's similar to Sandow it requires more thought than they tend to have. An easy out to a few issues would be Paul scouted them and used his influence to recommend them to the E to get them contracts, it's not ideal but it's a simple if anticlimatic experience. A more pressing issue is why did they stop and start attacking Ryback?
     
  4. Your post pretty much sums up how WWE have messed up. We're going by things they might have said and we're assuming. In a story like this, this needs to be emphasised. They can still be bad but actually have a reason for going around and causing havoc.

    This is why Nexus was perfect. They were a group of rookies who were pissed off at the NXT system making them look like crap, and the pros treating them like that. They had a clear agenda at first of getting contracts and making an impression. Then they wanted to actually dominate the WWE and eventually went into the direction of trying to get Wade the title. Everything was clear. We knew what they wanted and why they were doing the things they were doing to get there.
     
  5. Exactly. They did the same with Randy too.
     
  6. It's funny how Orton fits both my points, it's too difficult for them to exploit his gimmick properly and the stop / start attacks by The Shield. The story had potential and the John Cena problem was the right blend of gray area but the depth is gone now.
     
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  7. The highlight of the group so far is the promo they cut explaining how the system (aka John Cena etc) is what's wrong. That is a great direction to go with them. However, if you're going to go down that road you need to emphasise it and drill it into the fans mind that this is their issue. Have them talk about it week in week out and after they attack these random people, have them tell us why!

    It's just a shame to see such a talented group be misused. Though, it's not harming them too much as they're still the most entertaining thing in WWE, but that just shows how talented they are.
     
  8. Yeah, as negative as my view of WWE as a whole has been, I honestly don't think their are many problems with how WWE has handled The Shield. They really don't have to explain anything more than what they did, some subtlety/ambiguity is a welcome change from the norm for me. I'll attempt to address the questions ask from what I've managed to conjure up based off what WWE has told us.

    To begin answering this one, I'm going to have to quote Stopspot . . .

    This kind of fits into the whole scenario with Heyman. During the time this was probably happening, Heyman had a big problem on his hand with the upcoming triple threat match between Ryback, Cena, & Punk. Obviously he needed to devise a plan in order to ensure Punk's victory. So, he looked to the developmental and found The Shield, or perhaps he heard about them through the grapevines (which isn't unlikely, considering that Heyman was the head booker at OVW, so it isn't a stretch that he'd have connections with those in the developmental territory). Perhaps, he is even the reason they're together, it's not clear but I somewhat doubt that that's the case. One thing has become apparent in this story, and that is that Heyman is not the total mastermind behind The Shield. Yes, it could also be assumed that he instructed The Shield to target other wrestlers so to avert attention away from their connection to Punk, but the storyline really hasn't given us any indication that that's the case. What is clear though, is that Heyman provided them the opportunity they were looking for, the one Dusty talked to them about. Also, it's very likely that they still believed helping Punk to be the right thing to do. So yeah, they helped Heyman but aren't going to exclusively focus on helping him. He hired them to help him keep the belt, and since he lost it they've avoided him like the plague [unless I've missed/forgotten something]. If they were still working for Heyman, or if they were exclusively working for him, they would still be focused on helping Punk and would've interfered in the Chamber match against The Rock. So obviously, the affiliation with Heyman was just that, and it still benefited their cause.

    As for why they are feuding with Big Show . . . ever hear of obstruction of justice? Because that's why, Big Show decided to attack them while they were exacting justice on Orton. It fits with their motif perfectly. Now, I'd rather they not face Big Show since that guy has a tendency to kill my excitement for anything he's involved with but it aligns perfectly with both Show & The Shield's characters and motivations. Also, it showcase that they really are outlaws, that they really do have ideals they believe and fight for because they aren't just limiting their attacks to faces anymore.

    Because they finished their feud with Ryback, as anti-climatic as that was. I mean, they beat him three times in a row, they've taught him justice. Keep in mind, the main reason the Ryback feud went as long as it did was because Paul Heyman hired them to assure that Punk would retain and Ryback just so happened to be the challenger every time. Once that was no longer the case the feud continued because Ryback demanded revenge. Ryback was the one going after them, which again, kind of falls under that "obstruction of justic" idea so of course they'll retaliate. After that Raw match, they taught Ryback his lesson and Ryback hasn't retaliated again, why would they continue to attack him? Their idea of retribution isn't to incapacitate an opponent so he can't compete, it's to shield from the wrong, and even teach them their lesson. Mission accomplished. Them continuing to attack Ryback after that wouldn't have made any sense, except from traditional booking logic which dictates that the feud should finish at WrestleMania but I'd rather the characters dictate the actions honestly. Ryback learned his lesson, he wasn't going after someone they were paid to help protect (and I remain, thought was the right thing to do), and he wasn't persisting to seek revenge on them. I mean, this is more of a flaw concerning Ryback than The Shield if you really want to think about it.

    They do have a reason to face all three of the guys they currently are. One of the biggest reason is because pretty much all three of them are targeting The Shield. Of course their attentions are going to fight them. I don't think the story line needs any emphasis, like I said, I personally prefer this way. I prefer the fact that they don't feel the need to tell us stuff that is pretty obvious, like why are they facing such and such. I prefer the fact that they don't even feel the need to tell us stuff that aren't entirely obvious and requires some thought. Way to often wrestling is very straight forward and obvious, not a trace of subtlety to be found. I can happily say that this is not the case here and I for one am happy that's the case. Granted I'm talking strictly personally and from an objective point of view but even from an objective point of view I don't think I'd change much. There are still plenty of angles going on currently that satisfy those needs, and ones of higher value too. Plus, The Shield are still coming across as a big deal, so it's all good in my book.

    Also, on the note of Nexus, I thought their booking was terrible after SummerSlam (Well to be fair, their booking was so atrocious on the Raw after SummerSlam, that I immediately lost all interest I had in WWE and quit watching regularly [outside of some Bryan matches] until the Raw roulette with Punk's shoot but I kept track similar to how I do now).

    Oh, and I'm not trying to say that WWE couldn't have done more with The Shield, that they've reached their full potential, anything to that extent. I'm just saying that I don't think it's nearly as flawed as you guys seem to.
     
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  9. +1 ^ great explanation guy
     
  10. I couldn't motivate myself to read all of that, but a lot of that is presumptuous Mustafar.

    That's not good enough. We shouldn't have to say things like "Well they probably did this..." or "Maybe they did that". This is supposed to be the most dangerous group in WWE at the moment and the beat-down segments AND matches they've had pull that off well. It's not explained enough though. The on/off feuds and intentions need to be more clear. The "we want justice" explanation has been gone ever since the Heyman segment with him hiring them aired.

    I too would prefer the mysteriousness around it if it were intentional. At the moment it's lazy. WWE aren't selling them as mysterious outlaws who no one know anything about -- would be badass if they did. They're advertising them to be on the show, and that's it. "The Shield are here tonight, what will they do next?" isn't good enough for me. The story would be so much better if we had actual reasons and backstage segments. Why did The Shield help Heyman? He employed them but how did he find them? Are they actually a team or is it simply jobs for quick cash? If they're not a team, what are Shield's intentions now we know justice isn't it? If they're mysterious and no one knows, THEN SELL IT. They're just an afterthought at the moment. Hell, they weren't even on last weeks show until they went off the air.
     
  11. Totally agree with you Crayo, but throw out the IWC rulebook for this one. Ambrose and Rollins IMMEDIATELY got put over as main-eventers, lets not look a gift horse in a mouth.
     
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  12. The Big Show thing is so obviously an afterthought now Ryback is facing Henry at WM.
     
  13. I don't really have a problem with them not being on every show. Mainly because it keeps them fresh a bit, but they really should have shown a beat down on Big Show, I'd consider that to be a pretty important part of the upcoming angle leading up to Wrestlemania. I'm guessing Show will be shown being gang attacked on Raw.

    Anyway, I don't have much problem with how The Shield storyline has progressed except for the small point about their connection to Heyman and how that had anything to do (or perhaps nothing to do) with them forming the group and coming to WWE in the first place.

    At first, they revealed that their reason for attacking Ryback was because it wasn't right for him (or John Cena) to receive title shots after they already had one and failed. They continued to attack Ryback (and ceased attacking Cena) because Ryback continued to receive title shots that they feel he didn't deserve. As Mustafar said, Ryback continued to retaliate, and so the rivalry continued. Once Ryback gave it up, the rivalry ended. The thing that throws it into a small area of confusion is that since Heyman revealed he hired them to help Punk keep his title, and since their very first attack was on helping Punk retain (which, again, we now know to be because of Heyman paying them off), it makes it look like they were brought in just to help Punk and Heyman, even though that point has been than dropped since. But as is the case with a lot of wrestling angles, perhaps this small point should just be overlooked.

    Still would be nice if they at least revealed why they attacked Orton or Sheamus. I think a reason was given for Orton, but I forgot it if it was. Their attack on Sheamus was also a mystery (maybe it was for boring the WWE Universe.) Show is obvious, he punched out Reigns and got in their way, so they're paying him back as a way of telling him to know his place.
     
  14. Well, it's good enough for me. There are several possible explanations to how Heyman found them and hired them, none of which would be hard to believe or accept. However the exact specifics of how he hired them is relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things. All that's important is that Heyman had hired them, do we really need them to explain every single facet of their backstory when we can easily come up with logical ones?

    Also, where are you getting their intentions are not justice and that they aren't a team? They are still about justice . . .



    ^You only need to watch the first twenty seconds but Ambrose pretty much states that what they're doing is still at it's core about justice. I have another video that supports they're just about Justice, that I watched for the first time today (noticed it when searching for that promo above, gave it a watch) which not only supports The Shield is still about justice, but gives credence to a theory I didn't even mention, that Heyman didn't find The Shield, The Shield found Heyman. I may be over-analyzing the "justice isn't free" line way too much but it's totally possible that The Shield contacted Heyman to help him out. Heyman stated in the video that revealed he hired them that he "plucked Maddox from NXT and maneuvered him to be the ref from Hell In A Cell," which to me shows that he's obviously been there and The Shield could've taken noticed from this. So when Maddox wasn't an option again he probably went back to NXT and The Shield contacted him. So, that's what I believe to be the case and while they may reveal that not to be true later, there is enough evidence to support it (as the other theories and again, it's not that biggest thing to reveal, how Heyman found them won't change much) but anyway here is the video (from about 1:39 to 2:05 they talk about justice).



    So yeah, the group is still about justice, that still remains their intentions, they just don't drive it down our throats as much. And while I concede that I don't have any clue to why they initially attacked Sheamus though. They brought him up as someone who effected by the John Cena problem, so maybe it was something along that lines? I don't know, they should've explained that but obviously they kept attacking him because he's been as persistent as Ryback for revenge. Orton was originally because of him taking advantage of a defenseless Brad Maddox, and he's continued to seek revenge every now and then but when he stopped for awhile (during the build of Chamber) The Shield stopped attacking him so now they're definitely feuding with him because he's challenging them. And they reason they are facing Big Show is crystal clear, Big Show attacked them while they were attacking Orton & Sheamus, of course they're going to target him after that.

    Also, showing the attack on Raw post-show is retarded, but I never defended that nor did I ever say WWE's doing everything right with them. As a final note, I don't honestly care if this came out because of laziness or what WWE's intent with it is. It doesn't come across as lazy to me, just more ambiguous or subtle than the average story. I mean, I highly doubt WWE's intentions with having Bryan lose in 18 seconds was to get him super over.

    Yep, their reason for Orton had to do with his match against Maddox, but that was months ago so right now it's mostly because Orton is still attacking them. I have very little idea why they started attacking Sheamus though, but it appears now it's mostly because Sheamus is targeting them too.

    Oh, and technically speaking they were brought in just to help Punk. But according to the small snippet from that Maddox promo it appears to still fit their sense of justice and it's how they would've made the most impact so I think it works better for them they any other way of introducing them, especially since they haven't been focusing on that point. I always said The Shield should've came off as a separate faction to Heyman/Punk (which is why I was against them being revealed to be in alliance to Heyman for a long time) and they've managed to do that and not terribly in my opinion.
     
  15. You grossly misunderstood my point I think. When they first arrived on the scene they portrayed themselves as shining white knights who commit actions for the greater purpose, right? To keep the WWE from injustice. They were basically ruthless faces if you look at it from a logic point of view. Their intentions wasn't what made them heels, it was who they were attacking. However, if they're getting paid by arguably the biggest heel in the company, then their aura of "righting injustices" has gone. Why? Because they were doing it for the money and were promoted as being corrupt. I don't know how you can argue against that.

    I have no issues with them saying it's for justice now, because now they are cutting heel promos. Why? Because they're obviously lying. It's not simply a "I want more info :(" type rant, it's simply the lack of back story makes it look like lazy booking. They cut this promo against Cena about how he is the face of all this injustice, and then simply leave him alone. Obviously they can't continue to attack him because he is preoccupied, but address it. If they're simply going to end that feud then have Shield say WHY they're continuing their attacks on Orton and Sheamus. What's their motivation now for all these attacks? Injustice? They really need to have Michael Cole interview them for example and have them blatantly show a side of hypocrisy to further their heel persona, and to give fans a reason to care.

    They're attacking Orton because he attacked Maddox? But The shield beat the living shit out of Maddox so? We need more than what we are given, and with a story so good and the talent being used so perfect, it's a shame we're left with lazy booking. I don't see The shield being promoted as the dangerous group any more; they're simply dwindling in a feud where the motive is "well they attacked us back". How creative. They deserve better.
     
  16. Well, I totally get were you're coming from now, however that doesn't really seem like a problem of no back story but more of a problem with character deterioration. Anyway, I got a few things to talk about here . . .

    I. They did address why they stopped attacking Cena. In the first promo I posted, Rollins said they "Solved the John Cena Problem," so pretty much, they figure just beating him in the match was a good enough for them. I mean, that has its problems but I suppose that's the best they could do considering they really can't continue that feud. It does seem to fit their pattern though, as they stopped facing people before after simply beating them in a match.

    II. Again, Sheamus and Orton keep getting involved with them. Like when they tried to attack Mick Foley as just one example (another more recent one would be Sheamus & Orton working together in order to RKO Rollins [?, I don't remember who it was]). I do agree that having a promo or an interview of such would be a welcome addition to this story but I'm going to echo something Lockard said in the RTWM thread, we still have four weeks to go. There is time for that to happen, and I'm sure it will. Well, maybe not address Heyman and all that, but at least what's currently going on.

    III. I don't entirely buy into the whole they are just lying about justice thing considering them doing that would literally make no sense as their is no benefit at all for them doing it. I always thought they had a perverse sense of justice, considering their methods around fixing it and several of their reasons for attacking superstars (like the reason they initial attacked Orton is stupid on so many levels), granted that could've been because they were lying but meh, they've still given me no real reason to believe they were. Them being hired by Heyman just adds another level of their hypocrisies, but it doesn't automatically mean that everything they said was negated of all mean. They're still working for each-other, that much is obvious but they still could be working of their sense of justice. Yes, I realize this aligns with your point on we shouldn't have to be saying could, but that's irrelevant to my point here. Oh, and in case I forgot to mention (multitasking and just posting whatever comes out of my head hinders my ability to remember everything I posted), just being promoted to be corrupt, doesn't necessarily mean they are and furthermore doesn't necessarily mean that they have different values then what was first presented.

    IV. Finally, as I said previously the whole point of my original post in this thread was not to say WWE is doing perfectly with them, that this is the ideal situation, or anything to state that WWE has been reached their potential. Their are plenty of changes that could be made in the booking of The Shield that would make them much more interesting or better. Hell, one would be never having them aligned with Heyman, which I've never been for and still would've preferred it didn't happen. However, that doesn't mean I think what they're doing with The Shield is bad. I don't think their are many problems with their booking, and I think they've been handling the Heyman reveal pretty good considering how much I hated that idea (i.e. still having the focus of The Shield's action on The Shield rather than shifting focus away from them to do this whole big liar reveal affair). Maybe it's because The Shield is the one thing in WWE that holds my interest even a little, but when not comparing it to that "What could've been" I think its been pretty good. I just don't see that many flaws looking at it from an objective point of view, and subjectively I don't have many problems with it all things considered.

    Ah no, they initially attacked Orton months ago because of his match against Maddox. They then stopped because they taught him his lesson, but those initially attacks provided the fuel for Orton to keep going after them (and then stop why the Chamber came around, then continue after he lost).

    As for their motive to be they attacked us back, it's not creative or anything, but it is the most logical development in this type of feud and was always going to happen. What do you expect, the big superstars they've attacked, especially with characters like Sheamus & Orton, not to rise up and try to exact revenge (especially considering the time of year)? It would be retarded of them not to try and deal with the problem at hand, especially considering who the problem is.